Canadian Film Forum

anamariaagostonsatumare

The film deals with themes like: friendship, unfaithfulness and intellectual debates. What I really liked was the humour of the characters,the relaxed attitude towards sexuality and illness or death that makes us think that we don’t live forever. (something that I don’t agree with, I mean, our soul is immortal and we have thousands of lives, but that’s another story).

Remy, who loves life, mostly for women, books and good wine, will feel diasatifaction somehow. He was happy when he was young because he had a kind of quest for: "the essense of life.” He had time to look for the meaning of life, but now that he has to die he thinks it’s unfair. This is a hard lesson for all of us, if we don’t have real experiences of life, if we don’t dare to live life entirely, we will feel empty or unhappy in the end. For everybody living entirely is different. For him, books, women and friends couldn’t make his life complete.
His son, will do all his best to help him suffer less, either by changing his hospital accomodation, inviting his old friends to come to see his father, or buying drugs. Who wouldn’t like a son like this? But are there sons or daughters like this? I doubt it.

On one hand his death, nicely directed, he is surrounded by his friends and family, is a slow passage to the other world, where he sees beauty again. Is this death? After his death, the viewer may feel no fear to die. So, the director wanted to consider death as a normal step in a human being’s life, that after so much fun and laughter, there is time to say good bye to it all.

On the other hand, it was assisted suicide, a kind of shock for me and I’d like to talk about it a bit.
From Bagava-Gita’s point of you, which is a sacred book of the Indians, Krishna asks Arjuna: “Can a human being kill something that he hasn’t created?”
This question has two meanings. Either it is not allowed,or that one may try doing it.
Fust Milan, a Hungarian writer, interpreted it like this: “ you can’t raise a hand against yourself, you have no right to destroy yourself. And on the other hand, go on, give it a try, you won’t succeed doing it, anyway.” You cannot kill the divine sparkle in you, because it was not you who decides that. So, it cannot work, only for a short period of time.

monica-pop · Trimis: 17/01/2011 21:04 Titlul subiectului:

I would like to answer to Anamaria's final comment...yes, maybe from a religious poit of view the assisted suicide is not at all a moral deed, but I think that there are such cases when this is not a decision to condamn. When people like Remi have no chance for surviving and their last days are nothing but unbearable sufference, assisted suicide is in my view a hard but understandable solution.

monica-pop · Trimis: 17/01/2011 21:13 Titlul subiectului:

I've also tought about some aspects related to this film that we could discuss:
-Who are the invaders? Could Sebastien, his son, be one of them?

-In what way are politics involved in this film?

-Did this film taught you something about history?

-How are comedy and tragedy combined in this film?

Maybe you have other ideas, too.

alina.ionut

Denys Arcand reprend les personnages du film Le déclin de l'empire américain (1986) 17 ans après dans les Invasions barbares. Ils se retrouvent réunis autour d'un drame plein d’humeur, cynisme et chaleur. Ils se moquent de la mort. C’est un film touchant et sensible. C’est une satire qui reflète la réalité de Québec et finalement de Canada.
Le film met en évidence par une manière ironique le fait que le „health care” canadien comporte de nombreuses lacunes: le fait de se programmer quelques mois avant pour une consultation, l’agglomération des hôpitaux , le chaos et la désorganisation. On a l’impression d’être dans les pays du Tiers Monde. On se rende compte que la corruption fonctionne très bien partout. Sébastian, le fils du Rémy fait tout pour que son père ait les meilleures conditions dans l’hôpital et un peu de bonheur. En conséquence, même si au début cela semblait impossible, il recourt au pot-de-vin pour obtenir tout ce dont il a besoin: une chambre uniquement pour lui avec tout le confort, des drogues pour adoucir la douleur. Il ramène aussi au chevet de Rémy la joyeuse bande qui a marqué son passé. Ces intellectuels n’ont pas perdu le goût pour des discussions habiles et des dialogues vifs.
Rémy est toujours à la recherche de la raison de l’existence et fait son introspection. Il ne peut pas attendre paisiblement la mort. La fin du film est triste: Rémy choisi de se suicider.

Pour répondre à la question ci-dessus, le geste final de se suicider, c’est un acte de lâcheté dans mon opinion. Rémy ne peut pas accepter purement et simplement la mort. Il aime la vie, comme Anamaria l’avait precisé, il avait aimé le bon vin, les livres et surtout les femmes.
[/u]

anamariaagostonsatumare · Trimis: 18/01/2011 09:29 Titlul subiectului:

anamariaagostonsatumare · Trimis: 18/01/2011 09:37 Titlul subiectului:

anamariaagostonsatumare

alina.ionut · Trimis: 18/01/2011 11:53 Titlul subiectului: Les invasions barbares

Anamaria, il y a plusieurs réponses et plusieurs choses desquelles il faut tenir compte. Du point de vue religieux, on ne peut pas prendre la vie de quelqu’un, et on n’a non plus le droit de prendre notre vie. Nous avons la liberté de prendre nos decisions, mais on ne nous a pas donné ce droit de vie et de mort.
Moi, je pense que quand on est malade et souffrant, et qu’on a vécu une vie pleine d’événements et tumultueuse, on a eu un travail qui nous plaise et nous tienne actifs et branchés, c’est très difficile de se retrouver au lit, sans activité, être dans l’incapacité. C’est humilliant, dégradant, c’est la décadence.
Rémy a decidé de couper la souffrance. Il a renoncé de lutter, il a voulu mettre fin à ses douleurs.
Malheureusement, l’être humain est condamné à la dégradation vers la fin de son existance sur cette terre, la fin de notre voyage ici.

Je ne peux pas condamné un homme qui a de grandes douleurs, vouloir mettre fin à son existance.
Par contre, je ne pense pas être capable de pouvoir prendre la vie de quelqu’un dans une situation pareille.
C’est un grand sacrifice. Celui qui est capable de faire cela assume l’entière responsabilité. Il prend sur lui le pêché, la crime.

De toute façon il ne faut pas chercher le coupable, mais accepter les circonstances et penser que Rémy (ou tout autre homme) va dans un monde sans soucis, sans malheur, éternelle.

Andreea MSC · Trimis: 18/01/2011 15:44 Titlul subiectului: Les invasions barbares

Le film Les invasions barbares donne des nombreux sujets de méditation. Par exemple : le pouvoir de l’argent, les avantages et les désavantages de la consommation de drogues, le système de santé, la relation entre les amis et le suicide.
Je crois que les invasions barbares sont les sentiments intérieurs et les souvenirs revécus par Rémy et ses amis.
Ce qui m’a impressionné c’était l’attitude de Sébastien. Il s’est efforcé de faire les derniers jours de Rémy plus heureux et moins douloureuses. Pour ça, il a fait appel à tous ses relations influentes et a obtenu même des drogues.
Quand j’ai vu l’hôpital où était Rémy, j’ai pensé pour un ocazie que la scène a été filmée en Roumanie ; le système de santé c’était déplorable.
J’ai également était surprise par l’attitude de l’agent de police en ce qui concerne l’obtention des drogues.
Le suicide de Rémy est une question sensible et condamné par la plupart des mes collègues. Je pense qu’il est facile de juger, mais la douleur sans fin, le pensé qu’il n’y a pas de remède, la compassion de ses amis l’ont amené à recourir à ce geste extrême. Je n’encourage pas le suicide, mais je crois que la façon de penser entre un homme sain et un homme malade est très différente.

anamariaagostonsatumare · Trimis: 18/01/2011 15:53 Titlul subiectului:

Who told you that in the other life he would be "sans soucis"? there is no guarantee for that, mainly after committing suicide (from Christian point of view you are a sinner, so you go to a world with "fire and brimstone").

Anyway, it is just a film and we cannot judge the characters. Sorry for asking too many questions, sometimes I am philosophying too much.

alina.ionut · Trimis: 18/01/2011 16:10 Titlul subiectului: Les invasions barbares

Anamaria, je ne dis pas qu'il ira surement dans un monde "sans soucis", mais je suppose simplement. N'oublions pas que ce n’était pas lui qui s’est suicidé. Le pêché tombe alors sur les épaules de Nathalie.

Ensuite, philosopher me décontracte, c’est une évasion du quotidien. :-)

anamariaagostonsatumare · Trimis: 19/01/2011 13:17 Titlul subiectului:

In my opinion, he is guilty too, because the decision is his to give up his life, even if somebody else is giving the injection.

What do u think of the nurse, what did she try to teach Remy?

alina.ionut · Trimis: 19/01/2011 14:07 Titlul subiectului: Les invasions barbares

Si tu veux nomer les coupables, oui on peut dire que c’est aussi la faute de Rémy et pas uniquement de Nathalie, car c’est à sa demande qu’elle a fait la piqûre.
La soeur tente de révéler en Rémy son côté sensible. Elle le détermine de faire son introspection sur ses excès. Bref, le fait penser à des choses auxquelles il n’a jamais reflechi avant. De toute façon, ils s'amusent très bien ensemble.
Mais toi, qu’est-ce que tu en penses?

anamariaagostonsatumare · Trimis: 19/01/2011 14:18 Titlul subiectului:

I have already written this:
The nurse asks Remy to embrace the mystery, she tries to teach him to feel the way she feels about it. Can it be taught? Can u teach a person to feel the way you do, or have faith?

And she is the one who brings the lethal injections, that was not very "Christian"...

alina.ionut · Trimis: 19/01/2011 22:56 Titlul subiectului: Les invasions barbares

Je pense que ce sera difficile....Ça dépend de la personne, si elle a l’esprit ouvert envers la croyance, envers la spiritualité, qui n’est pas palpable. Aussi l’éducation qu’on reçoit dans la famille est importante.

Comment tu ferais, toi? Serais-tu capable? Est-ce possible de ton point de vue?

anamariaagostonsatumare · Trimis: 20/01/2011 08:54 Titlul subiectului:

i 'll definetely won't help somebody to die. this is not my role in this world. I believe in "what you do, it will be done to you."

adrianamichnea · Trimis: 25/01/2011 22:07 Titlul subiectului:

Anamaria, referring to your final sentence I agree with your point of view because I am Christian too, but a person who has other religious believes will see the things in another way.
I don't think that Canadians are so deep as Indians. They are good in politics, tecnologies but there seems to be a lack of spirituality . So for them we all die in a way.

teodoraSM · Junior Data inscrierii: 14/Apr/2010 Mesaje: 4

About the suicide which happens at the end of this film, I would like to add the fact that in my opinion no person should have the power to do such a thing.
We aren't the ones to decide the moment we should live this world.
I am familiar with people who have to face suffering and horrible pain due to an illness, but this doesn't give us or them the reason to committe suicide. I learned a simple but couraging thing which might seam silly to you, but I would like to share it with you: God only gives us what we can bare! and I've seen many cases in which this thing is very true.
What do you think?

teodoraSM · Junior Data inscrierii: 14/Apr/2010 Mesaje: 4

i 'll definetely won't help somebody to die. this is not my role in this world. I believe in "what you do, it will be done to you."

I agree with you, and I would like to add also the fact that instade of helping someone die, why don't we try helping them to LIVE!!!!

Mira Bella · Trimis: 01/02/2011 18:21 Titlul subiectului:

It was really shocking to see a son “helping” his father to die. To be honest, I thought that Sebastian came to his father in order to find a way to save him from death, esspecialy because he had money. I didn’t noticed a firm attitude of Sebastian, a strong desire to help his father.He is rather impulsive, and the fact that he helps him to die is revolting.
Remy was a person who lived intensely, and now, when he understands that he is too ill to be the same, he accepts the “treatment”. On one hand, I perceive this act as inhuman, as a very big sin, but on the other hand, I think that Remy was afraid of an end much more cruel and painful.
In my opinion, the invaders are the death and the modern society, that overturns the meaning of the existence.

Anielle · Junior Data inscrierii: 26/Mar/2010 Mesaje: 7

Egoyan's voice is so clear and loving, his vision so forgiving and his film so intelligent that you come away refreshed. Masterpiece is the right word for The Sweet Hereafter. It is extraordinary: a poem of familial pain, a song of broken embraces.

Anielle · Junior Data inscrierii: 26/Mar/2010 Mesaje: 7

The film is about three things: the disillusionment with socialism, the growing disillusionment with capitalism, and the death of a man who happened to have been a socialist professor in Montreal, while his son a millionaire.
I admire Remy's courage in the "end of his life", facing bravely and reconciled with the idea that he will die. Throughout the movie, Remy's body is invadead by a barbare illness that slowly killed his body.
An interesting movie by a famous Canadian producer Denys Arcand.

Grand_Shaman · Administrator Data inscrierii: 26/Oct/2007 Mesaje: 112

Grand_Shaman · Administrator Data inscrierii: 26/Oct/2007 Mesaje: 112